Yes Shoemoney SEO Does Have a Future
Posted on May 8th, 2008by Michael Gray in SEO
Now Shoemoney is a friend of mine, but regarding his post SEO Has No Future today, I am forced to disagree with him. Not only does SEO have a future but judging by the number of SEO clients I am turning away, and the number of job offers I am receiving on weekly basis to take on in house positions, all during a shrinking economy and a recession, the future is looking pretty bright for SEO …
Until web designers learn proper semantic markup, like H1, H2, are structural tags first and foremost, and visual elements second, an SEO is always going to have to come in and clean up the mess. Until designers learn how to use a CMS properly and separate content from context, an SEO is always going to have fix the nightmare they have created. Want to solve that problem require your designer read Designing With Web Standards before they give you a single markup or deck.
Until programmers and developers learn that cool widgety, pop-up, slide-out, spinning flaming skull javascript based mystery meat navigation is completely uncrawlable, and renders your website invisible to every search engine, and an SEO has to come in design a flat text based alternative navigation, SEO is alive and well. Until your programmers and developers learn that no matter how sexy the UI is, if your users and customers cant figure out what to do, SEO’s with a firm grasp on usability will always have a job. Want to solve that problem give everyone on your team a copy of Don’t make me Think by Steve Krug still relevant after 8 years.
Until CEO’s learn that flash websites with lots of eye candy and sizzle are great for entertainment, but don’t work because they break basic web functionality like the back button, an SEO is always going to be needed to bring things back down to earth. Want to help them really get the point, show him the flash website on an iPhone, then get them to read Homepage Usability: 50 Websites Deconstructed and Designing Web Usability by Jakob Nielsen.
Until old school marketing people like Peter Sealey stop thinking of search engines and the company website as an afterthought and SEO is always going to need to convince executives this interweb thing isn’t just a flash in the pan. Until companies start to realize they are slowly losing the ability to control the message and need to embrace that customers can control what the internet says about you, an SEO is always going to have to use techniques to address reputation management problems. Want to fix that problem start handing out copies of Small Is the New Big by Seth Godin.
Until Advertising and Copyrighting departments learn that the medium is shifting from a top down model to a more conversational one to one model, an SEO is going to have talk about content. Until companies start to understand you have to be more than brochure ware and solve someone’s problem if you want people to use and link to your site, and SEO is going have direct content creation. Want to solve that problem reread the Cluetrain Manifesto.
Until Public Relations departments understand that a press release isn’t exciting or useful to anyone except journalists and reporters, an SEO is going to have to explain viral marketing. Until clueless people like Clive Thompson realize that fame, ego, and cold hard cash can motivate people, you are going to need an SEO aware social media consultant to keep you from shooting yourself in the foot. Want to fix the problem read Tipping Point, Made to Stick and Trendsspotting.
Until your legal department realizes being politically incorrect is really an asset, an SEO is going to have to explain the concept of appealing to the linkerati. Want to fix the problem get them to read The Big Moo.
Until Web 2.0 startup companies and Venture Capitalists start considering SEO as part of their business plan from the start, an SEO is going to have to save a company from shooting itself in the foot at every turn. Want to fix the problem get everyone to read the Dip.
Until everyone realizes that a good SEO is also part marketer and all they have to do is push the right buttons we are going to have these debates about SEO being dead or not. Until people realize just like good lawyers and bad lawyers there are good SEO’s and bad SEO’s it’s really just a semantics debate.
The question is are you learning anything from the debate? Are you learning how to get links from it, how to get attention, and how to turn them into billable accounts and hours? If you aren’t, and you are just in it for the drama, then you really aren’t an SEO, you’re an SEOFakester (&tm; sugarrae).
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May 8th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Outstanding post. So spot on. Educating clients and designers was almost futile. Reminds me why I fired all my SEO clients and decided to optimize own sites for affiliate revenue sites instead. Best thing I ever did. At least now I have a definitive post that I can refer my friends to. Thanks!
May 8th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
I think the issue at hand is that you and Shoemoney are using different definitions of “SEO”, and, frankly, that yours is overly broad. Certainly you’re using a different definition than I expected when I started reading; you’re treating SEO as though it’s a superfield that encompasses artistic, management, marketing, and interface design, and while an excellent optimizer will be skilled in those areas, someone who is skilled in those areas isn’t necessarily going to be an optimizer.
It’s absolutely true that there will always be a need for experts in the various kinds of design and marketing that you mention; the average person, with all due respect, just doesn’t have the knowledge or skillset to exploit them properly. But I think Shoemoney is correct: when you think of SEO as the specific field of optimizing content and design specifically for search engines, as - I think - most people, at least most laypeople, do, the changes to search engines that Shoemoney talks about are diminishing that particular field’s usefulness and relevance.
May 8th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Great post Wolf. Fully agree.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Wow, when you twittered that you were going to write about this I didn’t think it would be so detailed. This article is an excellent resource.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
As long as search engines exist there is always going to be a need for optimizing websites to be more visible in them. I can see Shoe’s point and many of the techniques we use today for optimization will eventually change, but search engine optimization as a whole will be around as long as the search engines themselves are.
May 8th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
I deal with programmers and designers quite often; you stated it perfectly: all their knowledge about their line of work is great and all, but 9 times out of 10 they just don’t get the SEO side of things. Search engine friendliness just doesn’t seem to be their priority. Some think they know what’s up; some make attempts to run with the SEO pack, but the bottom line is, their brains just seem to be wired differently.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
>>>a superfield that encompasses artistic, management, marketing, and interface design
Think “SEO Firm”, you know… just like “Advertising Agency.”
May 8th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Brian,
>>>Think “SEO Firmâ€, you know… just like “Advertising Agency.â€
Yes, and the appropriate analogue to this post is “of course ad agencies have a future, because people need artists and writers”.
May 8th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
You’ve got to love it when someone hits a nerve, this post is pure in essence and gets right to the core issue of why SEO exists “removing the noise from those who are seeking relevance”…Great post Michael!
May 9th, 2008 at 12:26 am
As search evolves, real SEO’s will evolve with it. Those who choose to party like it’s 1999 will be the ones saying, “Shoemoney was right.”
May 9th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Wow, that was a mouthful.Nice and honest, truly. Though I do think most miss the major thing is it all has to work together. Really, is there any one piece of the whole IM pie that is more important than the other.As long as everyone keeps thinking their part is the most important there will be struggle and conflict like this. When we all can sit in the same room and work together to get it all right there will always be major advancement. For everyone involved.
May 9th, 2008 at 1:03 am
LOL, so real, Michael please don’t ever change and start posting “SEO Correct [politically correct]” garbage! Great thread dude!
May 9th, 2008 at 2:50 am
You do understand that it’s only a link bait. Right?
And it looks like he’s doing that really well.
May 9th, 2008 at 3:40 am
I believe somebody told me that SEO was dead in 2001. I believe I just laughed and asked, “How well is your site currently ranking?” I believe the answer was, “Hmmmmm good question.” Yeah, well it’s the year 2008 and I’m still optimizing my ass off.
The simple fact is that SEO is far, far from being dead. How could it be? Take a look at the many industry studies, or randomly visit a few websites for any keywords you feel like querying. You’ll find that the vast majority of the sites you view are in desperate need of SEO. That’s true for companies large, small, and in between.
I’ll tell you what is dead. Dead is the art of specializing in only ONE facet of Internet marketing and calling yourself an Internet Guru. And in case you have not yet realized it SEO, PPC, and Affiliate Marketing are all MARKETING INITIATIVES. Together they form a symbiotic relationship, which is crucial to every successful Marketing strategy.
That’s it. It’s time for this West Coaster to go to bed.
May 9th, 2008 at 3:42 am
Great post !! Totally Agreed !!
May 9th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Great post Michael! Thank you.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:03 am
gartner model. that is all.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:41 am
“an SEO is going to have to explain viral marketing”? I know a lot of great SEOs but hardly any that could explain viral marketing. Those are not the same marketing disciplines at all.
May 9th, 2008 at 10:07 am
@ben then you don’t know enough viral/social media is right now the most cost effective method for building links
May 9th, 2008 at 11:43 am
I was stuck in a rut on what books to read next, you gave me another month’s worth of new reading material. Thank you Michael!
May 9th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Amen brother!
May 9th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
@S Pearson:
part of my job is to be like Sesame Street, informative and entertaining, glad to help
May 9th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Michael,
Well said. Great reading list, too. Those are must-reads for anyone in interactive marketing, regardless of whether they’re directly involved in SEO.
(And THANK YOU for calling Clive Thompson clueless for that “Is the Tipping Point Toast?” nonsense. Assuming Thompson actually read the book, he clearly didn’t understand Gladwell’s brilliant explanation of an easy-as-pie concept. Thompson’s article was, at best, made to shtick. Oh how Fast Company has fallen… )
May 9th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
ouch, harsh on the designers….I’m a designer myself, and in my experience people want images…most people that read your blog probably like bland, boring, and text base sites…but people like flash, and simple images to navigate around…the trick is, to learn how to create neat, image based sites, that live up to basic SEO standards
May 9th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Great post Michael, there just way to much FUD out there, and people striving for attention by talking out their….. Its good to see you laying down the facts just as they are.
@John
Well he is bang on most designers write just terrible code, some don’t even write code and let tools like Photoshop generate it all for them (talk about code soup). So they have generally earned a bad reputation, and created a lot of other opportunities for us in the SEO field.
May 9th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
great article and god bless shoemoney that guy is crazy wish i was he!
May 9th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
I think as long as google keeps updating there algorithms there will always be a need for SEO. Think of the internet as a giant circle with a circle inside it. The larger circle on the outside represents what Google deems “spam” and the smaller inner circle is what Google deems “ok” well that smaller inner circle is constantly getting smaller, and that outer “spam” circle is constantly getting larger. Only the strong will survive in the SEO business.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
This post reminds me of the Tom Joad speech from the end of Grapes of Wrath. Only instead of “wherever” the Wolf uses “until”. I read the sh*t out of the post, and it’s played an enormous role in brightening my mood today. And I agree with Paul McIntosh in that it “all has to work together”. It’s “online marketing” and not just “SEO” anymore in my house.
May 10th, 2008 at 4:51 am
Great advice Mike. I’ve just secured a new client and there is LOADS of work to do on the SEO side of things. Very exciting to see a website turn into a powerhouse in the niche.
May 10th, 2008 at 8:33 am
SEO is indeed more important than ever as websites need to secure every advantage possible in a fiercely competitive market. To have any hope of standing up to the competition, you need to position the site in major search engines.
May 11th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Great Post Wolf!
What many don’t entirely realized is the fact the SEO has become more of a multi-disciplinary / multi-skill field in one of the most competitive fields. SEO lays down the foundation for other web activities, and to some degree off-line too. Think about the importance of keyword research. Isn’t that part of market research? Wouldn’t that give you an idea of the potential a market has to offer? How about SERP analysis? wouldn’t that help asses your market competition, penetration opportunities as well as market saturation.
So SEO is directly or indirectly ingrained in different basic function of the web and enterprise. Strategies and tactics can be enhanced by including even basic concepts of it all. To some degree an online profile may help evaluate the success of off-line ventures.
Perhaps what Shoe was trying to say is that SEO has become more of a social entity rather than a mechanical process that a fourth grader can follow. However, it’s also hard to swallow how people can be relentless to face what is in front of them.
May 11th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Great post.
I agree on the above.
There so many websites these days, that seo is inevitable.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:38 am
I believe the point Jeremy is trying to get across is that doing SEO to make a web site have a better impact in the SERPs is becoming less and less effective based on the fact that the algorithms being used to produce the SERPs are becoming less and less automatic. People are getting banned or reduced for this or that, which has to be a manual process. Other web sites are moving up without making any changes or creating any new content. The position in the SERPs is becoming more and more “subjective”. Regardless of that, the debate is rather interesting.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Booo Yeah! That’s a fantastic reply to Shoe’s post Michael, love it!
LisaD =)
May 12th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Followed this theme on a lot of boards and through tweets over the last few days. There are still too many fundamental errors made on the most basic pages. Ultimately, a good online marketer knows SEO and the subsets of that world. Sure, page titles and H1s and alt tags are important (and really dumb to leave out), but you hit the nail square when you broaden the SEO world to more than just marking up some head elements.
Great call on many of the books here too — love most of them and have been meaning to get around to some of the others.
George
May 12th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I hear you Ironman! Glad for the supporting references.
Nobody has specifically mentioned ‘conversions’. I understand SEO as one of the many sub-disciplines that comprise website optimization.
Professionals who can optimize the path from keyword to cash register will bring value to clients and make a very hard market for those who cannot.
Graphic designers (IMO) need to ascribe to the architectural axiom– form follows function. Anything less undermines the client’s business expectation.
MarketingExperiments and Sherpa have the eyetracking studies and testing results that should serve as the starting point for “best practice’ business design.
One thing we can count on if we work on the web– the learning curve never ends.
May 13th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
I totally agree with this post. SEO is going to be inevitably present for a long time. There are so many sites out there, search engines are the only way to truly find these web sites.
Keep up the good work!
May 14th, 2008 at 1:01 am
I think Shoemoney is playing the Jason C. playbook on this one to stir things up.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Simply Brilliant Post. I think that its always a good idea to first analyze a matter from every angle and then comment on it.
May 16th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
SEOs are dorks who work in a black box (albeit a necessary one).
ADs are the cool kids who create black boxes (and got it going on).
Stop being so damn jealous.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
@joeyTWOwheels:
AD’s ? dont know that acronym
May 17th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
“Until programmers and developers learn that cool widgety, pop-up, slide-out, spinning flaming skull javascript based mystery meat navigation is completely uncrawlable’ - My favorite quote of this year so far!!!
May 17th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Michael
Shoes not an SEO and proclaims not to be so it’s hard for him to have anything worthwhile to say on the subject but hes the linkbait queen lol
I think one of the most important things you hit on is the damn overuse of CMS systems for sites that do not belong in a CMS…
Lazy designers and developers make me richer straightening out their lazy ways lol..
Peace
May 19th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
SEO is the best way to get your website at the top of the search engines. You can use Pay-per-click but you have to pay for it every month.
Most web designers do not know nothing about SEO and do not take the time to explain to their customers what SEO can do for them.
It does not matter how beautiful your website looks like if nobody can find it online.
- Daniel Chege
October 27th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
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