SEO Players 2.0
Posted on January 3rd, 2006by Michael Gray in Random Thoughts, SEO
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One of the things that’s been floating around my head for the last week or so is, do we have so many people who are new to the game that they don’t know any of the SEO elder statesmen? Reading some of the comments in the linking contest over at threadwatch is what really put the thought in my head. However this weekend I answered so question in a forum thread over at Webmaster World and mentioned Mike Grehan’s Filthy Linking Rich article. The original posters response was shocking …
Who says Mike Grehan is one of the industry’s top minds - I’m saying he’s yet another guy leading the blind.
Do we really have so many new players in the game that don’t know or even care to learn a little history?
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January 3rd, 2006 at 3:30 am
I don think it’s so much that there’s a lot of new players (can they even be considered players yet?), it’s just a lack of knowledge.
These so called new guys managed to get a couple good rankings on Google and suddenly they know everything, when just the opposite is true.
It’s obvious that some know diddly squat if they don’t even realize when one of the industries major players is pointing them to another major players article (you pointing to Mike Grehan).
The real unfortunate ones are the people who hire these guys.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:36 pm
[...] This also ties in with recent thoughts I’ve been having about being a “2nd generation SEO”. Graywolf gives it a different name - SEO players 2.0. While GW’s views are a bit more on the negative side observing some dunce who doesn’t know who Mike Grehan is (which is just cluelessness and frankly disrespectful to the craft), I have some other thoughts that there are some benefits to being a 2nd generation SEO. I posted a little bit about these ideas in my SEM niche post on comparative and absolute advantage in SEO. I still consider myself a relatively new SEO, but I have been embraced by a community of people who I showed respect to, listened to, and I tried to not open my mouth too often when I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about. I think there is some advantages being a newer SEO, but there are certainly drawbacks. I wish I would have been around to work on the quick updating engines like metacrawler and infoseek, or even during the heydays of Alta Vista. I wasn’t though. I have, however, studied up on my SEO history, and found out as much as I could about the history of this business to be more alert to impending changes. [...]
January 4th, 2006 at 8:30 am
I found myself in the peculiar situation of disagreeing with Mike - I know there’s a sandbox - but agree with his complaints that the sandbox shouldn’t be a big concern as part of a wider marketing plan.
Funny to see newer players dissing Mike. SEO reminds me sometimes of dog packs. I used to be something of a puppy, but hopefully I’m more dog now. Mike’s an old dog, but knows more tricks than most puppies know exist.
January 4th, 2006 at 11:36 am
Keep in mind though that a lot of “anti-established SEOs” banter that goes on from “newbies” is usually just a troll attempt from other (more established) SEO’s using another nick.
I’ve seen firsthand:
- established (WH) agency SEOs posting as newbies to argue with established players.
- established SEOs posting as newbies to badmouth the competition (OK, not so much a revealation there! :p).
The trouble with the industry is that it is so easy to simply Ctrl C and toddle along. Hell, that’s how I started - relpicating stuff I learned and giving it my own twist. But what’s lacking is the orginality, creativity and innovation that individuals have and I think that’s what sets out the A / B list from the rest as it’s not something that can just be copied.
> The real unfortunate ones are the people who hire these guys.
Indeed - I think this is one of the most damaging issues the industry has just now - I’ve met so many people lately that have been burned by SEOs it’s unreal - within a couple of minutes I can usually guess the agency they used just from the crap they were sold. On the positive side it does mean more business for those who know what they are doing, but even so it makes the sell an uphill struggle.
January 4th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
I agree that the original poster on that thread is a doofus.
However just because someone has been around a long time, and is well-recognized, does not always mean they are right.
In this case, I do indeed think Grehan may be “yet another guy leading the blind.” Chalking up the sandbox to bad marketing? I chalk up his chalking-up to a lack of working on everyday, new Web sites. Because if someone works on everyday, new Web sites, they wouldn’t say “there is no sandbox”. No fracking way.
January 4th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
Now here’s the thing I thought Mike was a bit off his rocker on that one too, but I think a lot of us missed what he was really trying to say.
http://www.mikegrehan.com/2005/12/not-sandbox-again-i-dont-usually.html
However I think Bob Massa nailed it here
http://www.threadwatch.org/node/5147#comment-31600
If you have a business plan that doesn’t depend on free SERP traffic the sandbox is an irrelevant issue for you. However if you are trying to game the engines and exploit loopholes in ranking factors, there’s no way you couldn’t see it.
January 6th, 2006 at 3:48 am
[...] But for the older gurus, not knowing shouldn’t be considered a form of disrespect . The whole industry pretty much owes its existence to these pillars, but as as Andy says : …just because someone has been around a long time, and is well-recognized, does not always mean they are right. [...]
January 18th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Um.. “older gurus” is a problem. Just as “old ad execs” does not correlate with good Advertisers, “old” SEOs are not necessarily gurus.
Sometimes I meet an “SEO” from the AltaVista days and find they are way behind current SEO standards. It took quite a different skill set, demeanor, and perspective to ranks for “sex” in 1999 than to rank for “New York hotels near midtown” in 2006. Is there some reason every pimply-faced geek has to revere the old guard?
To say “the whole industry..owes its existence to these pillars” is nonsense.
Maybe you are only as good as your last post. Get out on the top of your game or keep working hard to earn your rep. No big idea in that. Now if being “listed” is what you’re after, that’s not SEO so different rules for that game.
No disrespect intended to anyone, but from where I sit the posturing by many so-called gurus is just that - posturing. And I respect them for successfully intmidating the newbies for competitive advantage. Now let’s see them convert!
January 18th, 2006 at 5:35 pm
If what you’re doing works for you that’s what counts, but if you don’t think you can learn something from someone who’s been around the block a few more times than you, then you’re missing out. Sometimes someone will let a crumb of knowledge slip out you can take it, add it to what you know and make a few hundred or few thousand bucks, happens to me all the time.